Thread: Is bester over?

Originally Posted by IronMan666

The rational for communism was that EVERY HUMAN including women and men were biologically equal.

What's that supposed to mean? Someone is taller. Someone else has a better memory. Someone else is more interested in physics and is therefore more talented. This was never disputed. Everyone should be equal in rights. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

and it wasn't fair for the talented to take advantage of their individualized nurture

Please do take advantage. Work in a field you're interested in. Become renown. Get published. Get all the chicks you want. Whatever. If you think you deserve a giant TV, go and get it. It's a different system which you can't even imagine, apparently... probably due to lack of abstract though, although you did claim to be some super intelligent being, but every time you post, you prove yourself wrong.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

Another big one is that humans naturally are made to live in small family units. Agriculture came in and people lived in bidder communities and eventually weren't able to see the entire community as their family (Which creates conflict and uncaring nature). So the solution is to break up small family units in modern times, because humans used to only know their small family units, and make them embrace everyone as their family (brainwashing).

Many philosophers and students at the time wanted to abolish various institutes, independently of their political views. A lot of people wanted to abolish social institutes, religion, military ranks, ranks in societies, the separation between students and teachers, abolish exams, etc, etc.

Through experience and trial of some of those ideas, we discovered that those ideas were futile or simply bullshit. Religion shouldn't be abolished, and especially marriage.

And for your information, neither Marx, nor Engels were saying that marriage must be abolished. Simply that once we abolish private property and women don't have to fuck with men for protection and money, who knows what's gonna happen? That's all they said.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

They tell the working class that THEY are the most important aspect of manufacturing. So the engineer, business developer, and architect are parasites living off their labor while the mass of workers should be taking credit for the building.

We never called anyone a parasite except the bourgeoisie. What you're saying is complete bullshit. Everyone who participated in the construction of Moscow subway for example was given equal praise and credit, be it engineer or a simple worker. Everyone was awarded medals for their heroic labor because everyone worked their asses off.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

If you actually read anything worthy you would know that the internet is starting a world wide capitalist rise, not a communist you nitwit.

Tell that to Hugo Chavez and Evo Morales.

Originally Posted by fatdeadsheep

and I wonder if this is in the talks of the USSR 2.0 bester, is that genetic engineering could, theoretically, make us genetically equal.

No, lol. Genetic manipulation is a recurring subject for the Nazis, not communists.

Gattaca is more dystopian than utopian. And by the way the idea of the movie is that never mind genetic predisposition, work hard enough and you'll get anywhere. I remember first seeing this idea in Columbo when he was investigating a murder in a high IQ society.

Lt. Columbo: You know, sir, it's a funny thing. All my life I kept running into smart people. I don't just mean smart like you and the people in this house. You know what I mean. In school, there were lots of smarter kids. And when I first joined the force, sir, they had some very clever people there. And I could tell right away that it wasn't gonna be easy making detective as long as they were around. But I figured, if I worked harder than they did, put in more time, read the books, kept my eyes open, maybe I could make it happen. And I did. And I really love my work, sir.

Originally Posted by Empressario

You've touched on the subject of technology and nuclear weapons in previous comments. It's human nature that the developing nations are hungry to obtain nuclear weapons so that they are no longer dictated to by the the superpower. It's not unreasonable to predict a destructive outcome.

There are two solutions to this right now.

First one is that Russia has to reemerge as a super power very soon or everything may go down. A bi-polar world worked and nobody found a better solution yet. Each pole was keeping its satellites in check. Since USSR performed suicide, America has become uncontrollable and has attacked so many countries that everyone is shitting their pants, trying to buy nuclear weapon. Syria, seeing as they were next, apparently tried to buy it from NK a few years ago (google Operation Orchard). Who's to say the next one won't succeed in acquiring it?

The second one is purely hypothetical. USA is going to many countries, bombing the shit out of them, but they don't stay there and they leave nothing good behind them. They sort of act like Rome, but Rome left cities behind, monuments, roads, culture and a military detachment. That's why it worked for Rome and that's why it doesn't work for USA. The hypothetical solution is that if they're gonna be like Rome, that at least they start acting as one. But that's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Bester

No, lol. Genetic manipulation is a recurring subject for the Nazis, not communists.

Gattaca is more dystopian than utopian. And by the way the idea of the movie is that never mind genetic predisposition, work hard enough and you'll get anywhere.

Yes, but what the Nazi's did was pseudo science. Eugenics is different than genetic engineering because Eugenics through a 'superior race' like the Nazi's is murdering everyone who isn't like you or stopping them from breeding while genetic engineering, under a communist society, would be free and equally available to all theoretically. There would be no reason to make one race or one hair color or anything like that. I as purely talking about using genetic engineering to put everyone on a semi-even keel and I would think communists would love that idea. Of course I think it would be terrible if this ever happens unless literally everything goes perfectly but i am not talking about what I want, I am talking about what I think will happen. (I know Gattaca was dystopian, I was saying that would be what would happen under a capitalist society if not everyone had equal access to genetic engineering which will be a reality in the coming decades like it or not.)

Originally Posted by fatdeadsheep

genetic engineering to put everyone on a semi-even keel and I would think communists would love that idea

Everyone is already equal. What you're proposing is to make everyone equally smart or equally stupid (depending on the perspective), of the same height or shortness ("but I wanted to be a basketball player and you made me 1m80"), and so on. This has no purpose. The only way this technology could be useful would be to make people healthy and without birth defects.

World capitalism - it's not possible. The only way it could "work" would be if America truly finished bombing the shit out of everyone (including China), thus creating the kernel of capitalism at home and peripheral (colonial) capitalism abroad, constantly keeping everyone in check and in medieval conditions. This system wouldn't be more humane than the Nazism.
Another way is to elect Ron Paul, but that's never gonna happen.

World communism - fuck yes it can work.

Originally Posted by Bester

Another way is to elect Ron Paul

It properly won't ever be ron paul, but Ron paul's brand of libertarianism is extremely popular in young college level people so the next generation may have a chance. It also will be interesting to see if the american two party political system is breaking down. I've heard that so far only 3 % of fascists have voted in the primaries. Who knows, maybe a libertarian party will break off taking some conservatives and some gays with it. That is when things will get interesting.

Originally Posted by Bester

What's that supposed to mean? Someone is taller. Someone else has a better memory. Someone else is more interested in physics and is therefore more talented. This was never disputed. Everyone should be equal in rights. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

I didn't say it made sense. Marx was a fucking lunatic. Ever heard of the Theory of Value Labor?

Labor theory of value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Come on bester, you don't have to bad of a brain. The whole basis of Marxes economic theory is based in that labor is what gives a commodity value. Do you agree with this? Is Das Kapital a reasonable document to you?

Originally Posted by Bester

Please do take advantage. Work in a field you're interested in. Become renown. Get published. Get all the chicks you want. Whatever. If you think you deserve a giant TV, go and get it. It's a different system which you can't even imagine, apparently... probably due to lack of abstract though, although you did claim to be some super intelligent being, but every time you post, you prove yourself wrong.

I really don't get what your answer is. You're being sarcastic and against Marxs theory or agree with the guy? Don't fucking know.

Originally Posted by Bester

Many philosophers and students at the time wanted to abolish various institutes, independently of their political views. A lot of people wanted to abolish social institutes, religion, military ranks, ranks in societies, the separation between students and teachers, abolish exams, etc, etc.

Through experience and trial of some of those ideas, we discovered that those ideas were futile or simply bullshit. Religion shouldn't be abolished, and especially marriage.

Yeah, nothing of Marx is applicable.

Originally Posted by Bester

And for your information, neither Marx, nor Engels were saying that marriage must be abolished. Simply that once we abolish private property and women don't have to fuck with men for protection and money, who knows what's gonna happen? That's all they said.

And that's why Feminists in the West are Marxists. They probably did poise that question, but to tell me they didn't want to abolish family is complete bullshit and pointing out that question they most likely wrote doesn't disprove it. If you study any writer he'll eventually write shit that sounds contradictory (My experience with Nietzsche) But the abolition of family was a goal in the creation of the new collectivist man.

http://www.csustan.edu/history/facul...the-Family.pdf

Its been years but I think he goes in explaining the abolition of family in the communist manifesto, CH 2 or 3. He has some fucking rational that the bourgeois are controlling them and the parents are exploiting children so the state should control the parenting but the point is that the relationships must change since the parents want to gather resources for their children bringing back capitalism and destroying collectivism.

Originally Posted by Bester

We never called anyone a parasite except the bourgeoisie. What you're saying is complete bullshit. Everyone who participated in the construction of Moscow subway for example was given equal praise and credit, be it engineer or a simple worker. Everyone was awarded medals for their heroic labor because everyone worked their asses off.

I'm talking about the theory which is sold to the masses. They glorify the manual labor as the best shit ever and everyone who took finances are parasites sucking the blood organizing and managing the business. The soviet Union ended with the Government being the upperclass while the rest slaved every day, the rural areas (4/5's) starving most of the times. Nothing to do with the actual theory.

One of my history professors (Who agreed with many social policies like Universal Health Care with the libs) claimed that Lenin had realized that Communism didn't work and was about to abolish it before Stalin came into power and forced the monstrous dictatorship. I have to references to it, but so far your arguments have been: "Your claims on the theory of communism not working is not true, because we never applied any of the Marxist theories you're claiming" Which obviously makes my point: Karl Marx was a nutjob and his theories are not applicable in the real world.

The Soviet Union was runned more like the Persian Empire and the Marx delusion.

Originally Posted by fatdeadsheep

Yes, but what the Nazi's did was pseudo science. Eugenics is different than genetic engineering because Eugenics through a 'superior race' like the Nazi's is murdering everyone who isn't like you or stopping them from breeding

Actually The Nazis loved the Japanese and called them "Spiritual Aryans" as with the Tibets.

But your claims that they has psudo-science are baseless. You'll have to prove that genetics play no role in brain, muscle and hormonal levels and that genetic traits in races are meaningless. Which ofcourse you can't do and all evidence leads to the opposite conclusion (Even eye color severely affecting the persons type of intelligence).

Dawkins supports Eugenics: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/3...ports-eugenics
As many modern geneticists

Just look at this cow, product of 20th century german breeding program and apologize to Adolf Hitler you small minded subhuman wretch!

Originally Posted by IronMan666

Come on bester, you don't have to bad of a brain. The whole basis of Marxes economic theory is based in that labor is what gives a commodity value.

It does. But as soon as you enter capitalist system, you can forget about that and it's the speculation that inflates the value of simple things and fills the pockets of the bourgeoisie.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

Is Das Kapital a reasonable document to you?

I haven't finished it yet. It's a difficult read. I found nothing wrong with it so far, so yes.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

I really don't get what your answer is. You're being sarcastic and against Marxs theory or agree with the guy?

I decided to avoid being sarcastic with you a long time agi, ever since you failed to recognize basic signs of sarcasm.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

but to tell me they didn't want to abolish family is complete bullshit

Not at all. They never wrote anything like that.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

He has some fucking rational that the bourgeois are controlling them and the parents are exploiting children

That's what it was at the time. Ever read Germinal? Read it and you'll see. Or at least watch the film.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

so the state should control the parenting

I don't think so, but it's one solution he proposed. I see other solutions and I don't see how parents would want to give up their children. Although this has precedence, sparta being one of them, or moden day Japan has something like that. It's a matter of debate, not a pillar of communist ideology.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

The soviet Union ended with the Government being the upperclass while the rest slaved every day, the rural areas (4/5's) starving most of the times.

My grandfather was born and raised in a village in the Volga region, moved to the city to study at the university. Keep your fucked up delusions to yourself.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

They glorify the manual labor as the best shit ever and everyone who took finances are parasites sucking the blood organizing and managing the business

Anyone who isn't producing anything (be it product or service), but speculating on prices is a parasite. Don't worry, you're not one of them. Just cause you tried selling wooden statues over the internet only qualifies you as an idiot, not a parasite. Relax.

Originally Posted by IronMan666

One of my history professors (Who agreed with many social policies like Universal Health Care with the libs) claimed that Lenin had realized that Communism didn't work and was about to abolish it before Stalin came into power and forced the monstrous dictatorship

Ooooh, nice. That's at least Harvard level of history knowledge. He should write books, CIA will sponsor him just like that, he'll be the second Robert Conquest!
(sarcasm)

Originally Posted by IronMan666

"Your claims on the theory of communism not working is not true, because we never applied any of the Marxist theories you're claiming"

F- for reading comprehension.
1- There is a proof that a matrix of products can be resolved through modern day cybernetics, rendering planned economy more effective than the invisible wanking hand of the market.
2- Communism offers an ideology that pushes the man towards the progress. Capitalism offers nothing.
3- Therefore communism is better in all regards.
(4- clarification for idiots: Marx isn't a divinity, if he made a remark that religion should be abolished for example, it's not up to him, it's up to the people to decide - and they'll never decide anything like that, the freedom of confession is an undeniable right. However, this has got nothing to do with communism. Communism will work whatever people decide to do about religion, it's of no importance.)